Hand Held Light Meters - S3 - Non-Studio Work?

[Bill C]

It's been years since I used a hand-held meter, but I keep coming back to this instinctive desire to use one, especially everytime I totally blow an exposure! I'm not talking about Studio work, although I do take quite a few 'on location' portraits using only the SB800. So, the question is whether or not you use a hand held light meter in non-studio work ... if so, under what conditions do you use one? Note - I use the S3 and the metering does seem better than the S2. I'm not looking for an excuse to buy more equipment :) but rather ways to get more consistency/accuracy in metering.
Bill

[Theo2005]

The real problem with both exposure metering and WB metering is that it's not totally reliable when done from within the camera. Personally I consider it to be totally unreliable :D :tongue2: A bit too random for my taste. No cameras excluded.

After all, you are reading reflected light that way which, depending on the the scene/subject/object can be quite something different from the medium gray the camera expects while metering. Again, this goes for exposure as well as WB.

Even zooming-in/out can/will cause the metering to change...not good! Not to mention changing position, even slightly ...again, not good. :woot:

Therefore I meter my exposure as well as WB with handheld meters AND set everything on the camera manually...yielding much better results. Esp. when working inside.

Of course this is particularly important when shooting series of pictures (like a wedding). For single pictures -unrelated to the next- this is much less of a problem. Having metered everything correctly makes life a lot easier afterwards...whether you work in jpeg or in Raw.

Theo

[Gil]

I have used my Sekonic meter when lighting back grounds at church. The SB800 will do a good job exposing the bride & groom, but the rest of the back ground will need to match when I use the Quantum T2 as second light.
Also, if you need to fill in flash shooting daylight family group shots and models, you may need to expose manualy and adjust a stand alone light to fill in the "raccoon eyes" at 1/3 less power of the sun/available light. Then, the light meter takes the guessing game out. Sure, you can shoot and adjust when you see the picture in the camera, but I look "cool" when using the meter hanging from my neck. It gives me that "Spielberg" look! :p

[easternherp]

I don't use a hand held light meter but I am going to get one as I feel that the camera meter can't meter exactly where I need it to.

[Bill C]

.....snip ....I look "cool" when using the meter hanging from my neck. It gives me that "Spielberg" look! :p
Now, that is the type of reasoning i like! :) Now, when my wife asks me why I want to spend money$$ on a light meter, I can say ' because Gil says I will look cool!' :) (I just want to make sure that it matches my slide rule and doesn't clash with my pocket protector! :woot: ).
Actually, thanks everyone for the comments! I may borrow a meter first for a couple of weeks, then decide .... what I've been doing is shooting raws when either I have a mixed lighting condition, or when I'm not too sure of exposures and don't want to over expose .... with the S3 and the quality of the JPGs, and how long it takes to write the 25mb raw files, I'd like to make sure that the shots were more accurate and that I'd get more consistency.
Thanks!
Bill

[Johnelle]

hand held metering v in-camera metering?

its like everything about photography, you have to learn about the process, the camera, how it works, how it meters and the variations you get under varying circumstances of light, reflection from the subject matter, all those other variables and adjust to achieve the result.

in short get out there and learn about what you are supposed to be doing with your equipment whether it is a hand-held or an in-camera meter.

Its what the exposure compensation facility is on the camera for.

every situation is different and that is what makes a good photographer from a photographer

rant over :)

JohnL

[BARBARA LUKE]

Well as you all can tell i am an inexperenced photographer.."just a pleb"" on my long list of ""must have's "" is a light meter, just a plain n simple one, not much to ask for is it ... :woot: so what one should i get ? ..... Barbara
PS hope you don't mind me jumping in on your thread Bill.......

[Bill C]

.... PS hope you don't mind me jumping in on your thread Bill.......
Of course I don't mind! One of the upper-end meters is the Sekonic L-358 ..... specifications here:
http://www.sekonic.com/Products/L-358.html
(unfortunately on the pricey side)
a more basic model is the Flashmate L-308S:
http://www.sekonic.com/Products/L-308S.htm
Minolta and Gossen also make good meters...
Bill

[easternherp]

I am hoping to get the Sekonic 358. From the spec this is the better one compared to what minolta and gossen do. I like the feature on it that allows it to accumulate the flash exposure with multiple flashes.

[Theo2005]

Well as you all can tell i am an inexperenced photographer.."just a pleb"" on my long list of ""must have's "" is a light meter, just a plain n simple one, not much to ask for is it ... :woot: so what one should i get ? ..... Barbara
PS hope you don't mind me jumping in on your thread Bill.......

There are quite a few brands regarding light meters. Polaris, Sekonic, Gossen...

Konica Milnolta can still be found as well in some stores...but don't order them when they are out of stock because all these products are out of production now (since KM stopped their camera business) as you can see on their website.

Theo

[Theo2005]

I am hoping to get the Sekonic 358. From the spec this is the better one compared to what minolta and gossen do. I like the feature on it that allows it to accumulate the flash exposure with multiple flashes.

Well :) even my Polaris does that...not that I ever use it :lol:

Theo

[easternherp]

didn't mean to offend. I just knew that Gossen and the minolta autometer didn't have ths function. Handy in the studio with big setups and multiple flash.

[Theo2005]

its like everything about photography, you have to learn about the process, the camera, how it works, how it meters and the variations you get under varying circumstances of light, reflection from the subject matter, all those other variables and adjust to achieve the result.

in short get out there and learn about what you are supposed to be doing with your equipment whether it is a hand-held or an in-camera meter.

Its what the exposure compensation facility is on the camera for.

JohnL

I take it you are not doing weddings then :D

Theo

[Theo2005]

didn't mean to offend. I just knew that Gossen and the minolta autometer didn't have ths function. Handy in the studio with big setups and multiple flash.

Don't worry I'm not offended at all. :lol: It's just a function my good old Polaris meter (cheap as it is) has and I never saw much use for it. But then, I'm not a studio photographer... :D

Theo

[Theo2005]

didn't mean to offend. I just knew that Gossen and the minolta autometer didn't have ths function. Handy in the studio with big setups and multiple flash.

Just checked the Gossen site:

The Starlite and the Variosix F2 meters offer this function as well. Didn't check their price compared to the Sekonic you mentioned.

Theo

[Theo2005]

Just checked the Gossen site:

The Starlite and the Variosix F2 meters offer this function as well. Didn't check their price compared to the Sekonic you mentioned.

Theo

Checked the prices here in the Netherlands:

Gossen Starlite ....... 469 euro
Gossen Variosix F2 ....... 479 euro
Sekonic 358 ....... 395 euro
Polaris Flah meter II ....... 199 euro

Guess the Polaris wins :D :haha:

See also here: http://www.greatoutdoors.com/polaris/cameras/digitalflashmeter.html

Theo

[proberts]

It's been years since I used a meter too, mostly with my 5x7 view camera and Mamiya C330 TLR. These days, I tend to trust in-camera metering a lot more, and use histograms if I think I might be where the camera will have an issue (or just dial in some exposure comp.)

Worst-case, I'll set up for auto-bracketing.

Paul

[KeithM]

I'll just add my 2pence worth... ( I voted Yes, so will tell... :D )

( the conversation seems to be about flash metering, but I'll plough on... :hitself: )

I don't use flash and shoot with the ambient light - I use a handheld spotmeter to 'expose for the highlights' :) - but this is generally only when I've got the S2 on a tripod and having setup the shot I want to check exposure by exploring the scene. If I'm working handheld, I use the S2's own ( slightly bigger area ) spot meter.

I also use the histogram to check - especially if the colour temperature of the light is extreme ( early/late Sun or incandescent light ) or an element of the scene is a bright, saturated, colour ( flowers are a good example here ) - I use the individual RGB histograms to check if any colour is clipping.

One problem with the histogram though is that it scales the height of the mountain to fit the display - so if there is a significant area of same-ish tone, it creates a narrow tall peak that flattens everything else down - and makes it easy to miss small ( but possibly important ) areas of other tones - so a small bright area might be being clipped but there's no bump at the white end of the histogram to warn you.

And like may others, if I'm in doubt, I'll bracket exposure just in case - my subjects are usually very passive :)

Keith.

[BadpicKev]

sorry bander, could not respond. there was no i am too cheap to buy a light meter selection.

[deMille]

Hand held. My Gossen UltraPro will calculate for multiple flashes. Just be carefull that your studio flash units are producing the same output each flash. Many don't, due to poor design to handle line voltage changes, capapcitor storage, leakage, recycle time, etc. etc.

Anything I shoot with a purpose is hand metered. In-camera is fine if I'm just goofing off.

Dale

[JPS]

When i started playing with photography, in the mid-sixties, i got so used to use my old M3 or Rolleiflex without a lightmeter, that nowadays i still shoot very often in ALL MANUAL, not even looking at the "bar-meter" (is that the correct word ?) in the viewer, just "feeling" the speed and aperture...

...not to say that i have such an accurate eye, but with digital cameras, with the possibility of seiing the result straight after shooting, it's not a problem for me to correct slightly the exposure and re-shoot ! Of course, my style of photography does allow me to take my time, so this helps !!! ...if i was shooting sports events, it would be another story ;) !

Cheers,
J-P.

PS. just remembered that the thread had moved on to "using a lightmeter -of flashmeter- when shooting with flash" :doh: ! I only use flash "in studio", for my flowers and macros, so the answer is the same as previously: i shoot, then correct, until i get the result i want ! In any case, i never used a flashmeter and wouldn't know how to use one :dunce: !

[vindog]

I still use a 16 year old gossen luna pro for strobe metering with my whitelightnings. Outdoors no strobe, I use the camera's meter..

[lightwrangler]

didn't mean to offend. I just knew that Gossen and the minolta autometer didn't have ths function. Handy in the studio with big setups and multiple flash.

Actually my very old (22 years) Minolta Flashmeter IV does this. It was an excellent purchase; it's deadly accurate, works like new except the sync no longer functions. (I manually fire the flash using a hand held switch I have constructed) I have used the Sekonic and Gossen meters too. The L358 is a very good value in light meters. BTW, both will work with multi flash or as we sometimes call it; "popping". I would heartly reccomend anyone on a tight budget consider a used minolta flashmeter IV.

[lightwrangler]

But to answer Bill's query; Yes I use one, but not usually with continuous light, mostly with strobe. I find that in rush situations the camera's meter is close enough. When I have time I can use the various meter settings to fine tune (in concert with the histogram). In some cases, like a interior shot with added on camera strobe, I do find it handy. FYI, I don't shoot weddings.

Cheers,
Adrian

[Johnelle]

I take it you are not doing weddings then

one of the main reasons and areas where you really need to know your equipment, I can talk from experience because I have done enough of them in the past.

But I feel the point is being lost. You have to know your equipment inside out. If you rely on your handheld or an in camera system you are going to go wrong at some stage.

With the modern camera are you telling me you would rely on auto white balance in all cases? Surely not!

JohnL

[Johnelle]

. . and I am responding to the '' non-studio flash question'' !

JohnL

[Theo2005]

I take it you are not doing weddings then

one of the main reasons and areas where you really need to know your equipment, I can talk from experience because I have done enough of them in the past.

But I feel the point is being lost. You have to know your equipment inside out. If you rely on your handheld or an in camera system you are going to go wrong at some stage.

With the modern camera are you telling me you would rely on auto white balance in all cases? Surely not!

JohnL

Actually, John, I think you are missing my point :) I totally agree that you need to know your equipment inside-out...absolutely!

I don't use the Auto-Wb at all. It's simply too unreliable for me. When shooting series of shots (like a wedding ceremony) Auto-WB goes hence and forth, never really hitting the right WB setting and leaving me with degree-Kelvin values in the pictures that are all over the place. :baldy:

And while I can change the WB during the raw-conversion in a non-destructive way, I'm not at all pleased with that rather random behaviour. Sure, I know exactly what is causing it, but that doesn't help one little bit. Auto wb is simply too unreliable while shooting series of pictures - end of story. So I meter this by hand and thus get MUCH better results as well as very consequent ones. :getdown:

And the same goes for Auto-exposure. I do use that outside, but try to avoid it if I have the time.

As for handheld metering: that way I am in control, not the camera. I rather like that, as I like the results. Sure, I can meter wrongly. But that's my own fault then and I will learn from it. In the end, handmetering has become verry sufficient as well as very reliable for me.

Theo

BTW I test every new piece of equipment rather exhaustingly before going "live" with it....I don't like surprises. And sure, a lot of equipment would have "surprised" me if I hadn't.... :baldy: .... I could tell you stories.... :D

[Johnelle]

Well, it seems we agree on something then - I think?

JohnL

[Wichita Wayne]

didn't mean to offend. I just knew that Gossen and the minolta autometer didn't have ths function. Handy in the studio with big setups and multiple flash.

I believe you can do this with a Gossen and Minolta meters. The only time it really was necessary was to shoot big objects. It is easy to test with studio lights. Just push the flash button and note the reading then push the button again and see if the reading changes.

I like to use the camera in manual with an incident meter. It seems to always give me better results.