I am in the middle of resolving the TTL Problem with Fuji Canada.

[laue]

Hi Everyone,

I am in the middle of resolving the TTL Problem with Fuji Canada. Since I know quite a few number of people who have problems with TTL on the S2.

Does anyone who has the S2, but w/o the TTL problem..please reply!

I wonder if it happen to be a batch of Cameras which happen to have this problem, but not all..!?

Eddy

[LinhLe]

Dear Eddy,
Sorry, I don't know what is the trouble with your TTL, would you give us some more information?

Lính Lệ:)

[laue]

The problem sort of all contain in the link
http://www.s2pro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1215

TTL should provide you with the same exposure regardless of what f-stop u use as long as you are using in within range.

The S2 Pro has have problem.

eg.
Over-expose @ f2.8
A little over @ f4
perfect @ 5.6
a little Under @ f8
under @ f11

In other word the TTL flash wouldn't provide you with the extra light to compansate for the f-stop

People have been using auto-mode on the flash unit itself to get by!

Eddy

[Tom V]

Originally posted by laue
Hi Everyone,

I am in the middle of resolving the TTL Problem with Fuji Canada. ....

It may be an infinitely long road to the solution. Half way up the road my be closer, but it is still an infinitely long way away.

Good luck, and I hope the road is not as long as I fear it is.

Like so many others, my TTL is not reliable.

Anyone can easily test their TTL by shooting a series of images at medium range, in a dark to moderately lit room with the camera on A (Apertue Priority) and the Flash on TTL. As you adjust the lens ƒstop, the TTL flash system should increase or decrease the light output to keep the overall exposure constant. ie, the overall exposure at f4 should look like the overall exposure at f8. HOWEVER, the flawed TTL system produces lighter and darker images, or at least inconsistent exposures.

Many people have not noticed this with their S2s, probably because they never did a series of images with various apertures, in which case they would notice the errant exposures - or the photographer might be assuming they themselves did something to cause the errors, or they don't understand that TTL is supposed to keep the exposure correct (within limits) no matter what the aperture, ambient light, distance, or subject matter.

You are better off setting the flash to AUTO mode, and relying on its 30+ year old technology.

[laue]

Assume the error on the TTL exist on most S2, I believe Fuji should fix the problem. If not, it should be consider mis-advertise.
As TTL Flash is not even an advance feature, but a standard capability of SLR Cameras at this class.
If they don't get this problem resolve, we could even get together and sue them.

I only like to see this TTL Problem resolve. Yes, while they try to have this problem resolve, we sure can use auto for now, but it should only be temporary.

They are a few things Fuji should do for us at this point.

1> Publicly Admit that there is an issue with the TTL Flash Function.
2> Promise the users that the problem will get resolve rather the camera is under warranty or not.

I really think we should get together and do something, so that Fuji would really response to our concern.

BTW, using the flash in auto works well, but it is also annoying, because the aperture on the flash has to be manually adjusted to match the camera's aperture. Yes, for the SB-28 anyway.

Eddy

[Tom Nolle]

I talked to a very knowledgeable Fuju USA type who was in contact with both Nikon (on the flash) and Tokyo on the S2. He says that with modern Nikon flashes (as opposed to my venerable SB16) the S2 TTL works as advertised. The problem is that I can't dispute this because I don't have the setup.

It's my opinion that some S2s have a TTL problem and others do not, but it may be related to some subtle settings difference between users' favorite baseline setup for the camera.

Tom

[laue]

Whatever he said, but I know it doesn't work on my SB28, and I tried it with the SB80DX at the store with my own S2 Pro. And I tried it with the shop's Brand New S2 yesterday.
So, the problem does exist, and it isn't only on one particular Flash unit, but with many including the Metz 54MZ-4, SB28, SB80DX, etc.

Eddy

[rsvpgrfx]

my tests with onboard flash and TTL seem to confirm there is no TTL.

if Aperture mode is used on camera with onboard flash within acceptable distance and f-stop range if you vary the aperture on the camera the picture gets lighter and darker accordingly, both in matrix and spot metering modes. this seems to show that TTL metering for flash is not happening.

i have contacted fuji USA today about this

[laue]

As of today Oct 6, 2003. I finally have my S2 send to Fuji for Repair. (10 mins drive, Vancouver location). They will look into my TTL Problem, as they told me that the Toronto office has not received any complaint on such an issue. They are also looking into re-calibrate the WhiteBalance, as my photo always tend to have a yellow-greenwish color. I recall seeing someone's post here that he has the same problem, but fix by Fuji.

I'll update you all once I receive my camera...! Let's hope it doesn't have to fly to Toronto for repair!

Eddy

[killians913]

Keep us posted because this is a problem for many of us and it shouldn't be. TTL should be rock solid whether it be a non-DX or DX flash.

If there is admission of a problem, try to determine what serial number runs are affected so we can verify whether our S2 is included.

Thanks. :confused:

[laue]

In addition to my previous post. I would like to know from those who use Flash A mode. I know for the fact that the SB-28 or the SB-80DX would not adjust the flash aperture automatically as you adjust the aperture on the camera.

Example, if I have my flash set in A mode with aperture set to f5.6 to match the camera aperture, by adjusting the aperture to f8 on the camera would also require me to adjust that on the Flash as well.

Now, any other flash unit that you anyone is aware that it wouldn't require you to do so!?!?

You know..just in case Fuji can't fix my problem...I would still like to go out and by a flash whcih wouldn't have that issue!

Eddy

[puglover]

My S2 with the SB80DX is horrible. The TTL does not work, at all. And using manual when you are shooting a wedding and need to work fast is a real pain in the a--. I am fed up with this camera - fortunately - using RAW helps a lot when it comes to exposure (and for some odd reason which i can't figure out the images seem sharper when i use RAW) - i just purchased the leadingspect Super Digibin 2 portable hard drive so that I can shoot solely in RAW - it will take me more editing time - but it will also save me a lot of heartache. If you find out that Fuji can or will do something about this problem please let us know....but I won't hold my breath.

[puglover]

Also, I know that the auto assist light doesn't work with the SB80DX attached (why, don't know...) - but should the light on the flash work? I get nothing - shooting in the dark with the flash - the camera REALLY struggles to focus without the auto assist light - anyone have a solution or any advice on the subject?

[Wichita Wayne]

I set the camera to manual and the flash to A. Then if I see the need to adjust the exposure I simply change the camera F-stop. I do this with both a Metz 60CT4 and a Nikon SB-24. Having them disconnected to me is an advantage because it allows for quick adjustments that you can depend on. And the Metz 60CT4 works great with its head pointed straight up and the kicker flash directly on the subject. The only hassle it the brick of a battery that has to go over your shoulder. The more I use this camera the more I use it in manual mode.

[rsvpgrfx]

yes manual flash mode works on this camera as it will on any camera for the last 25 years or so, but the point of this thread is that the automatic TTL flash mode does not work properly, manual mode is an alternative, but is still not automatic TTL.

[Don65Stang]

Originally posted by puglover
Also, I know that the auto assist light doesn't work with the SB80DX attached (why, don't know...) - but should the light on the flash work? I get nothing - shooting in the dark with the flash - the camera REALLY struggles to focus without the auto assist light - anyone have a solution or any advice on the subject?

I use the sb80dx. The red lens auto assist focus light works fine on my set up. However, the small white light on the flash - I've never seen that come on.

According to the manual, that light is the red eye reduction light. But that is probably a good thing - I really don't like red eye reduction pre-flash flashes. IMHO, that is about the most unprofessional aspect of this flash. i couldn't imagine using this at a shoot.

[puglover]

REALLY, so your (red) auto assist light on the camera DOES come on when you have the SB80DX attached?? I wonder why the heck mine won't? It is a real problem...i have been thru the manual and here in the forums i thought i read that it isn't supposed to come on when the flash is attached but that a light on the flash will come on in it's place...i get neither light. I got robbed.:(

[Wichita Wayne]

He asked and I answered. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

[puglover]

But Wayne, the point still remains that the TTL should work - we shouldn't have to go thru this with the flash on Auto - whether or not it is workable in that mode...

[Don65Stang]

Originally posted by puglover
REALLY, so your (red) auto assist light on the camera DOES come on when you have the SB80DX attached?? (
Yes, mine DOES work. I operate one of two ways: either flash on top of camera or attached via SC17? sync cord on the stroboframe.

Maybe it's your flash. Have you checked it on a different camera? When something goes belly up, I always check it this way first.

[Wichita Wayne]

I use an old SB24 that has a built-in red autofocus assist light. When the flash is on the camera the flash's red autofocus assist light works and the white autofocus assist light on the camera does not work. (My redeye reduction is turned off by the way.) If the flash is mounted on a bracket then the red light lights up but is aimed a little high; so sometimes the camera has trouble focusing, especially at short distances. If I use the camera without a flash or with the built in flash then the autofocus assist light always lights up. I have even been known to use it to search for a set of droped car keys in the dark by halfway pressing the shutter release. If the red light on your flash is not working then something is wrong. Test it with another camera to see if it is a camera problem or a flash problem. Also be sure that the flash hot shoe is pressed all the way in. This has been a problem with us on both our cameras and flashes. If this is the case then the camera's autofocus assist light will light up with the flash on and the flash will not function properly, and sometimes the camera will give you an error message on the top LCD.

I am also not advocating using manual when the camera is not working properly or has a manufacturing flaw. For years I used an incident or spot meter with medium format cameras. So it is natural for me to use this process even with the S2. I never was really happy with any TTL metering that I used in the past (but I admit to not using it very much). I also use the "sunny 16" rule a lot, and my wife can guess exposure within 1 stop in almost any environment. In fact she usually makes a guess and then meters to check her guess. I also like to use manual and then "chimp" the picture and histogram and tweek the f-stop on the camera if it is needed.

[Don65Stang]

Originally posted by Wayne
I also use the "sunny 16" rule a lot, and my wife can guess exposure within 1 stop in almost any environment.
Using what shutter speed do you make this guess? And using flash or ambient light? Lots of factors in guessing.

Sometimes I try guessing but usually am off, easy enough to check the histogram and adjust as necessary.

[Wichita Wayne]

The sunny 16 rule is to shoot on a sunny day at f-16 with a shutter speed equal to your film speed in terms of ISO. Then you judge how the environment differs from sunny. For example bright cloudy would mean that you open up a stop or cut the speed in half. In the old days you would probably also bracket to help zero in on exposure. With digital the histogram would be your way of zeroing in on the exposure.

In churches you can usually always be right using an EV of 7 to 8, which is f-2.8 at 1/15 to 1/30 of a second for ISO 400. Bright churches are usually EV 8 and normal churches are usually EV 7. Candle light services usually go down to EV 6. I also never shoot the ceremony shots (without flash of course) in a church without first checking it with a hand held meters. I determine the proper exposure with an incident meter then take a spot reading on an object near the alter. I pick something that is close to 18% grey in B&W that will receive the same light as the Bride and Groom. Then I set the camera to the incident reading. If the light changes and a new spot reading indicates that the light has gone down one stop then I go down a stop from the original incident reading.

With the S2, chimping and the histogram make this a lot more simple. If the lighting is strange or the alter has a strong spotlight then you can use the camera as the spot meter, but you need to select a spot that matches the incident reading. I am also finding out that a lot of churches photograph fine with the camera set to matrix metering in P mode and auto WB. I usually confirm this with a few test shots before the action starts.

[laue]

I am sorry to tell everyone the bad news..here! My Camera finally came back yesterday..! I am not aware of any firmware update nor are there any real fix.
I am starting to wonder if there are any fix for the TTL Flash. All they have done is a CCD clean & recalibrate the CCD Color.

I am not aware of any improvement either for the TTL FLash, nor for the color cast.

I guess I'll wait for something like a D2X (If there will be one) while using the S2 for now. After all, beside having to set the flash manually and fixing the color cast..I have no other problem, and it does produce sharp printable 13x19 images.

If anyone ever have their problem fix by fuji, please let us know!

For those who know that the Nikon Speedlite wouldn't change the aperture along with the camera in flash AUTO mode, have you try any Flash which would??

Eddy

[jeffinkansas]

I use a 54mz3, and I like it, but there is definately no TTL. As for the focusing light, it only works on autofocus that is not continuous. Don't know if you are using that. I don't, b/c the camera wont fire if it is not perfect, and that is not always good for me.

[puglover]

I discovered something interesting - and i will check out the manual more closely tonight to see if this is normal - although it shouldn't be...

I thought that my auto assist light on the flash (SB80DX) wasn't working - what I discovered this weekend while in Mexico shooting a wedding was that it will not work if I am using any of the focus points other than the center point. I was really frustrated because it wouldn't come on and I was in an extremely low light situation - and started fiddling with different things- moved the focus point from the right to the center point and the auto assist light worked fine. odd, don't you think?

[jeffinkansas]

If that is true, that you very much for that realization!!!! I thought maybe this was just another quirk in my camera

[SHROOM]

After reading the rolling discusion on the TTL/DTTL problem on the S2 and SB-80 and the possible lack of the above function I think the Fuji should definetly be made aware of it If they don't already know !
So far I have been using the onboard flash only and was not even aware the problem existed with the TTL control . It is entirely possible that the problem may be in the 'firmware' of the camera
and if so, the upgrade of the firmware would be in order . And I believe the Fuji people should have that answer handy