Epson 2200 - poor image color. HELP

[Don65Stang]

Ok, what am I doing wrong?

This printer has never printed color correctly, I don't think it's the printer though.

I use PS CS.
Settings: Adobe RGB (1998),

Print w/ preview,
show more options

Color management:
Source space: document - Adobe RGB 1998
Print space: profile: Working RGB - Adobe RGB (1998)
Intent: Relative colormetric

Use black point compression: checked


So what's the deal? Am I missing something? On many different images of varing color, once printed look great except the color is faint on every image. Changed ink, same thing.

Thanks for any and all help with this.

[bobt]

What kind of inks and paper do you use? Also, do you check the "Epson color" box. Using Epson inks and Epson papers, I've had no trouble. I also have had good luck with Ilford papers, but not so good luck with Konica glossy paper - too much bronzing.

Also, are you sure that the type of paper selected matches the type of paper being used. However, having that mismatched usually results in smearing, not bad colors.

Finally, at the risk of offending you - are you sure the inks are in the right positions? I've heard of folks who reversed the positions of the magenta/light magenta or cyan/light cyan with unfortunate results.

With a little luck, maybe BJ will see this and give you some more specific advice. Except for the problem with the Konica paper, I had good results pretty much out of the box.

[Bill C]

Don - I've had excellent results with this printer, however, it is sensitive to paper/profile combinations. Also, I use Qimage to print so I don't have a direct answer to your questions about printing from CS (I'll try a test).
I know that in the printer setup in Qimage, I turn color management OFF, and let the printer profile handle color management. I did quite a bit of paper testing as well, and settled on the following:
for a lustre print for most applications I use micro ceramic lustre from InkJetArt - and, a corresponding profile just for that paper. I've also had good results with Ilford Smooth Pearl (again, with a profile just for that paper). For 'gloss' prints, I use paper from Pictorico ... they have a High Gloss White Film that is really more like a plastic, and they have a photo glossy as well. I think one of the things you have to watch out for is 'double profiling'.. Also, I suggest that you go to the Epson forum at
www.dpreview.com ... they've had several discussions about the 2200 and printing from PhotoShop.
Regards,
Bill

[Don65Stang]

My answers are mixed in with your post below.

Originally posted by bobt
What kind of inks and paper do you use?
All Epson specified for this printer. Premium luster & Epson inks.

Also, do you check the "Epson color" box.
Not sure, where is the Epson color check box located?

Also, are you sure that the type of paper selected matches the type of paper being used. Yes, I do this.

Finally, at the risk of offending you - are you sure the inks are in the right positions? Yes, no offense taken - inks in correct slots.


Thanks for the info.

[bobt]

I use PS7, not CS. In PS7, the Mode area (where quality parameters are selected) has a check box called "Epson natural color."

I can't offer anything - good luck.

[toners]

Bob - Tell us more about where you set "Epson Natural Color" in PS 7 - I'm not finding it. But I'm not sure I want to mess with my setup, as it is working fine as it is.

Don -- You didn't mention the Epson properties settings you were using.

I'm using PS 7, and print on Epson Enhanced Matte using the following Photoshop color settings and Epson Properties. Until I hit on this setup by searching out info on the web the prints were lifeless with dull blacks. Now they are excellent. Good luck - I guarantee you will click your heels when you get it right.

[toners]

And in Photoshop's "Print with Preview" dialog, there are these settings. . .

[bobt]

Well - I don't know if what I did will work - I did a screen capture, pasted it to a new document in PS7 and saved the image as a jpeg.

Perhpas this is a Windows XP (Home Edition) feature. I have two printers - a simple dot matrix for word processing and the Epson 2200. I select the 2200, click on properties, and this panel comes up. As (I hope) you can see, one of the options is "Epson natural color."

[toners]

Bobt --

I think there are a couple of reasons why we see different properties boxes. One is that I'm using Win 98 on the computer I print from. I have this sytem going that I though was a good idea at the time I set up my new XP computer that I would edit on that power machine, then slide the files over to the old win 98 machine so as not to grind my teeth while the 2200 takes its good old time making prints.

The other reason for the different dialog boxes may be that I am using matte black ink instead of photo black - the box won't even show me a choice for premium semigloss paper. Below is the "basic" properties box I get. The one I showed in the earlier email is obtained when I click on the "advanced" button. Which leads to yet another question - I wonder why no such button is available in your properties box?? Perhaps there is someone out there who can clarify that. And also hopefully this is helpful, and not jost adding more confusion to Don's original question. I guess it shows there are several paths to good prints with the 2200.

[crabby]

Eeeewww! Windows, I'd rather see a picture of a dead naked mouse:tupon: . Just kidding
Seriously, Check out this guys info:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_mac.htm
Not sure how specific of the 2200 he is but it's good solid advice on color managing for epson printers.

[toners]

Thanks for the excellent link, Mike - but sorry I made you hurl your lunch!

The color management system described on that link as the approach for novices is the one that I attempted to describe above.

I did learn that I'll need to give up my win 98 printing system when CS arrives, as it works only with WIN XP and 2000. Oh, yeh - and also something called MAC OSX. ;)

[crabby]

Toners-I wouldn't say this links method (and mine) is the novice approach. It's actually the most accurate. But it's only as accurate as your monitor calibration. I used to use the "Printer Color Management" printer profile in the print with preview dialog in PS. It does make nice pleasing color prints usually and usually pretty accurate to my monitor. But there's a difference between pleasing color and predictably accurate color. When you select the printer color management, it's telling photoshop to not do anything and let the ptinter's software do the color matching. I thing (arguably) that photoshop does a better job of matching porfiles. It really baffles me that you can have an untagged source file and have ICM selected in the printer software and get an accurate match. I'm baffled but not supprised. Here's what I would suggest for Don:
Print with Preview in PSCS
Color management:
Source space: document - Adobe RGB 1998

Print space: profile: Matte Paper-Heavyweight (or what ever paper you are using)
Intent: Relative colormetric

Use black point compression: checked

In Epsons software:
Select your paper type
Select-Advanced ( I saw you had it set on automatic)
This will bring up the advanced window.
Select you resolution-1440,2880 whatever
Select-No Color Adjustment

Try it and see what happens.

These are just my findings. I am not putting anybody elses method down. Every photographer I know personally does it differently and swares by their method. When I have a beer with my friends this is what we usually talk about :cheers: I know, My life's pathetic.

Don, I think what was screwing you up the most was having it set on automatic.

[Don65Stang]

My settings were all over the place. I conformed to Toners settinga and had tremendous results. I plan to run a few test prints with the other recommendes settings to see which is closer to my monitor - which is not calibrated, but is zeroed in somewhat close to my lab prints.

Thank you for the very good responses in helping with my settings problems. I was ready to offer the printer up for sale due to frustration, but I knew it was a blown setting somewhere.

The prints are so much nicer now from following your advice.

Thanks.

[toners]

Well, I've sure learned a lot going through these setups. For once the difference between having PS handle color management or letting the printer do it is clear. I've just gone through Mike's step by step procedure for setting up PS color management. I get identical results to having Epson software manage the color. I think this is a good thing, because now I know how to use profiles for third party papers, if I choose to get brave and give them a go. Mike, one little thing you left out that might cause a little confustion is that before you can see Epson's "No color adjustment" checkbox, you first have to check the ICM button.

Thanks, Mike, for the help with this stuff. Maybe not as cool as chatting about it over a few beers, but seeing the light can be nearly as intoxicating! :beerchug:

[jeffinkansas]

another option with this printer is printing with the black ink only. i use the matte black and have had tremendous results. while the resolution changes, it resembles a little grain and i like that. What you do is set you source space to postscript or printer color management. Then in the print dialouge choose the black in set only, and make sure the vivid setting is chosen in the colormangement drop down. then print! it is that easy and makes suprisingly neutral b and w prints.

Also if any one is interested I just read an article on how greg gorman does his bandw conversions. I have switched to doing this way all the time now.

[Don65Stang]

I ran a print with Mike's settings. It was dead on. Wow, what a difference from my blown settings to these excellent results. Toners & Mike, thank you both for all the help. The results are great. So much so, I wouldn't think twice about selling one of my Epson prints instead of the lab print.

I recommend these settings to anyone with a Epson 2200.