And They All Came Out GREEN

[VA_Shooter]

I went to my son's basketball game this afternoon and took my S2 along for the ride. I took some test shots before the game with each of the White Balance options, ORG Color, ORG Tone, STD Sharpness. None of the test shots looked any better than the rest as far as the white balance went...so I took 10 on Auto, 10 on Florescent 1, 10 on Florescent 2...etc. All 100 shots were GREEN. What is it with the lights in school gyms...everything looks weird. What should I do to get decent shots. Or is it impossible because of the strange lights they seem to use?

[jeffinkansas]

it seems that the auto balance is only capable of operating within a certain degree kelvin to another. It is not that the camera or raw plugin cannot go further it is just an automatic issue. I recomend shooting raw, or a custom white balance, and adjusting in post production.

[pauly99]

Connie, I am glad that you posted this thread. I shot my N80 a couple of days ago and know from past experience (not mine) that the pics will turn out with a yellow/orange cast. The gentleman that I took the shots for realizes this but wanted the prints pronto so that they could be put in a school yearbook.. in B&W.

I was tempted to pull out my S2 (which I had on hand) but decided against that because I was being paid to shoot with the N80. I'll give it a whirl myself but after your test shots, I think I'll follow Jeff's advice by shooting in RAW.

[VA_Shooter]

Go with the RAW, Pauly. Those pictures were really, really ugly. And nothing I did to them helped. Will go to the next game, shoot in RAW and adjust afterward and see what happens.

[pauly99]

Connie, we'll have to share what works and what doesn't.

:cheers:

[VA_Shooter]

Yep, sounds good. I was really disappointed when I came home from the game. I needed experience shooting moving targets and thought this would be a good place to try. It was just a scrimmage game...not a lot of people, just right. I had nearly 100 shots--some good, some way out of focus because of the movement issue and my general lack of experience with it. But man, I'd hate to think I have to take a couple of dozen pics and run them all through a RAW converter to get the WB corrected. Lots of post production time in that. There is another fellow here that is taking JPEGs on movie/theater stages/sound stages that is having this same problem. I'll have to look up the thread and keep up with what people are saying to him.

By the way...noticed you bought the 50mm Nikkor for your portraits. How you liking it?

[jeffinkansas]

what you can do, which will save you time in post production, is shoot a white/gray/black card, and then shoot normally. Then in post production, you load that picture, use the levels mid point and select the gray area of the card. At that point your correction should be done for you. If you like you can create actions from this task, and load them into the batch automation area of photoshop.
this should cut down on time in postprocessing

JEff

[jeffinkansas]

the other option is using your custom white balance setting in your camera. Set it before you get started and viola you are in business. you can even shoot jpegs then.

In terms of shooting in a basketball arena (which is where I thought you said you were shooting) we, my boss and I, use lights. We hang four 1000 watt elinchromes from the arena ceiling, that gives us at least a 60th and hence no blur.


Good Luck!

[pauly99]

Jeff, I would love to shoot with lights and have in fact heard of individuals setting up Vivitar 285's within the rafters but I was strictly told that we could not use lights.

I will try shooting the white/black/gray card and see how that works via photoshop.

[pauly99]

Connie, I like the 50mm 1.8. Very nice for a full portrait lens but if you are looking for closeups, I would recommend the 85mm 1.8. Again, an excellent lens but with just a tad more reach.

[S_Leeper]

What lens were you using?
What were your other settings: f/stop, filters, etc?

I usually do my sons' basketball games at elementary gyms. Usually have to use iso 800-1600, f1.4-3.3, depending on lens being used. With the hopes of having a shutter speed of at least 1/125. Often get a bit of a yellowish tint, between the lights & the reflective hue from the floor.

I would suggest checking the filter you may be using, as it might give a flare with a greenish cast from the high pressure lights often in use at the smaller gyms.

Good luck

[pauly99]

Sam, I'm proud to say that I've mastered (slightly) taking pics at hockey, football, and sporting events. Shot the 1st basketball game around 1 week ago and I had a tough time getting what I wanted to get in focus... in focus. Most pictures had the fans behind the players in focus or players behind the players that were my subject in focus. I manually focused using the 85mm 1.8 at ISO 1600 and 1.8. Any recommendations?

[S_Leeper]

My only real recommendation is to get used to having a much higher ratio of blurred shots. At first I was resistant to not accepting the fact that a much higher percentage of shots would be instant discards (even though I have to view at home to see if they really are blurred). Then I began to accept that in such poor lighting conditions my style of shooting & expectations had to evolve.
Some other things I do?
I try to anticipate more. Often "pre-focusing" near where I plan to take the next shot. I generally don't even try to shoot the far side of the court.
I sit near the end of the court. Also, a great place for young kid shots, as they are often relegated(sp?) there--a bonus for me.
I set the focus mode to "c," & leave the "+"/dynamic tracking off, to keep from picking up on the wrong player, instead lots of mini pushes on the shutter.
I generally set to A priority & scan area that tends to give fastest shutter speeds & if possible look for shots there.
Make sure you bring a lens hood as if there are windows you can be sure you will be sitting directly across from them.

Am I sucessful? Not really. If it is the usual dimly lit gym I feel lucky to get 6-12 usable pictures. (My only real use is for me & a small photo album for the coaches with at least one of each child at the end of the season.)

Good Luck

[pauly99]

Sam, I was told to stand behind the basket and pre-focus on the basket and take a couple of steps forward and leave the focus point on the basket and then more of my shots will be in focus. Like I said, I've been told this but I have not been able to try it yet. Whaddya think?

[Brad Harris]

Hi Everyone

I was just reading all these post regarding
focusing. With a so called professional camera should it really be such a hit and miss. I know that there is a lot of technique to photograph sporting events but I do expect a state of the art focusing system to nail the shot if done correctly.
Most of the time you only get one chance to get it right so you need the right tools to help you achive it.

Just my opinion.

Happy New Year

Brad

[pauly99]

Brad, I take enough shots that I get a bunch of good ones but unfortunately during the last event (basketball) I had too many misses. Too many of the crowd in focus or the players behind what I was actually shooting at than my subject. I'm still trying
to figure it out.. and this was manually focusing using and 85mm
1.8. The glass doesn't get much better than that.

[Brad Harris]

Hi Pauly

How about those Canucks!
Just kidding, great shots on your website. I am working on my digital workflow do you shoot JPG or Raw? and are you happy regarding the qualiy of output from the S2? I had that 85MM 1.8 Nikon and wish I had not sold it. I did p/u a Tamron 90mm SP 2.8 lens from a friend which is a sharp lens but questioning the compatibility with the N80 body. I have one question do you use sRGB or Adobe RGB 1998? I find in photoshop that even if I ignore the sRGB tag and dont color manage when opening in Photoshop then assign (not convert) to Adobe RGB 1998 the colors appear over saturated. The sRGB color space is closer to the actual scene and if the monitor can't display all the color in the Adobe RGB 1998
color space why use it? if you are printing only on RGB devices only.
Note I would use Adobe RGB 1998 if files were to be use for CMYK output.

Brad

[pauly99]

Brad, My parents live on Vancouver Island so... I guess I would root for the Canucks after the Hawks. I find that RAW works better and has so much more latitude than jpegs, so I shoot RAW whenever possible. Having said that, I only have 2 (512 mb 40x WA) Lexar cards and find myself shooting jpeg when I need to get more images. The 85mm is sweet but I've heard great things about the 90mm Tamron. I believe Lightwrangler owns one and have seen fantastic macros on other threads.

Oh, I've only recently been using Adobe RGB 1998 in Photoshop CS having used sRGB previously. The only reason that I switched was because a friend of mine noted through a Scott Kelby book that Adobe RGB 1998 was his preferred colour (damn Canadien spelling) space. I dunno enough about this stuff though.


I think this quote came from Scott Kelby's Photoshop book for digital photographers

"Press (shift-ctrl-k) and immediately you'll see the RGB equal to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 which is the DEFAULT color sp ace... Arguably the worst possible color space for professional photogs... History: This color space is designed for use by Web designers, and it mimics an "el cheapo" PC monitor from 4-5 years ago..."


"From (shift-ctrl-k) click the down arrow in RGB and scroll to Adobe RGB 1998. This is probably the most popular RGB setting for photographer because it reproduces such a wide gamut of colors, and it's ideal if your photos will end up in print. Click OK and this is your new default color workspace."

[Brad Harris]

Pauly

Thanks for the info. Here is a image that I took today with my kids.

Brad

[S_Leeper]

Originally posted by Brad Harris
Hi Everyone

I was just reading all these post regarding
focusing. With a so called professional camera should it really be such a hit and miss. I know that there is a lot of technique to photograph sporting events but I do expect a state of the art focusing system to nail the shot if done correctly.
Most of the time you only get one chance to get it right so you need the right tools to help you achive it.

Just my opinion.

Happy New Year

Brad
Basically you are right. However, I am not using lenses designed for fast focusing, esp in a very low light situation.
Also, much of my blur (about 1/2) is due to subject movement. If I can get my shutter up to 1/125 I fell good.

[VA_Shooter]

Originally posted by jeffinkansas
the other option is using your custom white balance setting in your camera. Set it before you get started and viola you are in business. you can even shoot jpegs then.

In terms of shooting in a basketball arena (which is where I thought you said you were shooting) we, my boss and I, use lights. We hang four 1000 watt elinchromes from the arena ceiling, that gives us at least a 60th and hence no blur.


Good Luck!

OK, so let me get this straight, Jeff. I've dabbled with this white balance issue and I think I understand it. I go to the gym with a white card...the lights are all on. I stand in the gym, hold the white card in front of my camera, focus on it with the viewfinder filled, CUS1 chosen from the function menu, manual focus and shoot. The LCD display will respond with "Under" if the shot is under exposed, "Completed" if the shot is correct and "Over" if the shot is over exposed...right? If "completed", then my custom white balance for the gym is set correctly and my photos shouldn't have the gastly green cast to them? Do I understand you correctly?

[jeffinkansas]

I think that is it. Hopefully:)
If that doesn't work, make sure you are not mixing flash as well/ that you have the correct selection in the white balance menu. If that does not work I will do some experimenting and see what I can come up with. the other option is a correct exposure of a white/gray/black card and then pull that in photo shop use the middle gray selector in levels and create a correction. the reason doing it in camera is important is 1) if you are shooting jpegs, and 2) your photos wont be so full of noise if a major postproduction correction needs to be made (always do in 16bit for best results)

Hope this helps, if not please email me if you need quicker feedback or brainstorming help! bwphoto@sunflower.com

[pauly99]

Connie, I'll be trying that trick on Tuesday of this coming week (holding the white card in front of me as I shoot) before I shoot a basketball game. For whatever reason I am not being allowed to shoot flash at the basketball games but am allowed to shoot with the flash at high school wrestling events.

The flash definately helps to drown out the colour casts.

[jeffinkansas]

If you can use flash in those situations I definately think that it is the way to go. I really like the effect that mixed lighting has and often times choose it!:flame:
what is this thing?

[Linda G]

Jeff,

I think it's a flame, for when you 'flame' someone on the list.

I don't think we get much of that, thank goodness!

[jeffinkansas]

hello to a fellow kansasan, I was born in wichita but live in lawrence

[Linda G]

Hi,

I'm a transplanted Iowan, still a Hawk fan. (went from Hawkeyes to Jayhawks) and now my daughter is an attendee at the Jayhawk's campus. :) I see a lot of Lawrence, and Mel's (my husband and member here, jhawk1000) a grad from there.

Is it quiet there without so many on campus? She's headed up there this week to job hunt. She works at the Leid Center but not getting enough hours. Know of anything? <g> Gawd, am I straying from the topic!

[jeffinkansas]

Linda,

It is really quiet, and now really cold. As for work, what does she want to do? Can she wait tables? That always served me well in this town. It is flexable and cash in hand (good or bad thing:beerchug: )
Unfortunatly I am a little out of touch with that stuff now, but if I hear of somthing in the next couple of days I will let you know.

JEff